Good Friday, Dear Readers!
First we must apologize if we suggested in any way that you were not deep and intellectual. If you don't know what we're talking about, please ignore this apology. If you do know, please forgive our stupidity!
Moving forward now to today's COD—Conundrum Of the Day.
Hidee-Ho MikChiks (salutation ours),
Sooo,
Facebook.
Land of many wonders, sometimes those include things you might think are inappropriate and leave you head scratching, wondering why the person who posted what they did thought it would be a good idea to do so. Today my conundrum is in regard to a female friend who has adopted as her profile shot a photo of her with a fair amount of skin exposed. Let's say we can see where her tan lines end....
I think that this is inappropriate, not only because I value modesty (as I'm finding out more and more) but because she is a Christ follower and ought to know that shots like this are titillating and could lead even a strong man into dangerous mental territory. Wanting to be perceived as being an attractive person is understandable, but I think the 'vast tracts of land' profile pic cheapens her and unnecessarily advertises her as a...temptress.
Lest ye think I'm (totally) jealous, I think she's a lovely person and if I had her youth and looks I might well want everyone to be gandering at them too, but this is a little much, esp as a woman of 'faith'.
SO, the thing is - is this MY problem, or does one say something about it? Like - 'hey, all those married dudes who are your FB friends are going to see this and might get the wrong idea about you so please keep it under wraps and oh by the way that bikini shot you posted last year? Same deal.' or am I being a total prig about this and should just accept that young(er) women of cute appearance and availability (though if she were still married this might bother me more, I don't know) will post pictures like this and I should just get over it?
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Signed,
Didn't need to know where the freckles end.
Dear Freckles,
You're right about so many things, and we don't think you're a prig. A prude maybe, but never a prig. Just kidding. Though how much skin is acceptable, can be situational. A picture of a string-bikini-clad woman lounging seductively with her umbrella drink is obviously inappropriate. A bikini-clad mom with her kids building a sandcastle might not be. So we hesitate to make a blanket statement that all flesh is too much. The attitude, pose, and context should be taken into account because sometimes a person can be fully clad and still exude a wanton invitation.
Now to the part of saying something…
We'd say it all depends on how close you and your friend are.
If you're pretty tight, and talk on a regular basis it's a-okay to butt into her butt-baring business. If you're only casual friends, and this would be the first conversation you've had in a long time, then you'd be a jerk.
Maybe if you're not really good friends, you could try asking her out for coffee and catching up, or starting innocuous on-line conversations. Don't spring anything on her right away, and don't look at her as a 'project'. See if you can be legit friends, and eventually, after nurturing that relationship for a while, broaching the topic of her tantalizing ways won't be so awkward.
It would be great if people used a conservative yardstick when deciding on what they say and show on Facebook—always asking before hitting the enter button: what would my boss/mother-in-law/grandmother/__________(fill in the blank) think if she saw this?
And lastly, we all have our own thresholds for what we think is "too much," so extending grace to others (especially if they're on the young and dopey side), isn't a bad thing, either.
Please let us know what you decide!
And that's it for another exciting week on this rotating earth of ours. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend with people you love.
XOXO
Maddie and Lisa
I have to disagree about when it's okay to speak to the friend. Just like I'd warn (and have warned) friends about posts they shouldn't make again-- things that might hurt their rep (for instance- not close friend posting about driving after taking allergy meds and feeling groggy-- this is counted as a dui in some places and didn't want her to get in trouble, especially, heaven forbid, if something happened and then in court they could point to that post). It's only been on rare occassions, therefore- I don't feel like a busy body or a nosey nora or a conservative clara? This is a situation where you're warning a friend that what's been posted may not be received by everyone the same.
ReplyDeleteThere's no need to be brutal about it. Pad the truth in loads of love.
Dear hot, still young, though barely clad friend (of course, not stated quite like that),
May I congratulate you on the super fantastic-ness of your rockin' bod? (clearly, this should be a same gender friendship-- don't go here if friend is lesbian or you're a dude) I applaud your bravery in posting your profile pic. You are gorgeous. But, as a friend, I think I need to say that your picture might not be seen the same way by all your friends. (if she's young enough try this -->) do you remember that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer snapped the holiday photo for Elaine and there was a bit of nip exposed? Well... your pic feels a little akin to that. Don't get me wrong, you're beautiful, and there's no reason to hide your beauty. But in this case, I'm wondering if a little clever cropping might make the photo a little more friend-friendly. I just don't want to see you get hurt. (if it were me, I'd add in the example of the woman in our town that was murdered because she sunned herself in front of her house on the lawn in a bikini. the guy was pushed past temptation and hurt her. profile pics are sort of like the front yard, only post what you're comfortable standing in front of passing traffic in.)
Don't know. Maybe that does sound too harsh, but in my head- I see it as a friend protecting a friend.
If done w/ a good amount of humor and love, the truth can be told.
Otherwise-- if you can't bring yourself to do that-- or you know the MikChiks are right and I'm wrong :) you can always block her from your feed.
I have a 3x and you're off violation thing w/ my friend's list. I've had friends post really, really awful things and if they do that 3x, I unfriend. We're talking nude Santa, so not just me being too prudish.
It's food for thought anyway.
As a stalker of church teenagers, I'm appalled and worried by some of the things they post on Facebook. My practice is to tell their youth pastor or mentor and let them take it from there (seeing as how I'm not a youth leader and don't "know" any of them except casually.)
ReplyDeleteOne girl in particular posts provocative poses in skimpy bikinis and I'm so worried she's heading down a wrong path. Her mom is her friend on FB, so..... Hmmmm.
One thing Freckles said was "as a Christ follower, they should know....". "Should" and "Do" are two different things. I had a friend tell me once that I might want to think about my short skirts and wearing them to church. I seriously never thought about it before - I mean they're my legs, I've always had them, and it isn't that the skirts were necessarily short, but that my legs are extraordinarily long and a large portion of them extend past the hemline. Then I read in the Bible that the woman who lead a man into temptation is herself a sinner. Yikes! Needless to say, I no longer wear short skirts (much to my husband's disappointment.) Neither do I wear "short" shorts (ditto on the husband) or low cut tops (he's devastated and told me I'd turned into a prude.) Long story short, I should have known, but I didn't. Maybe she simply doesn't know? Not much advice, I just like to talk.
That's the thing about FB... and any other public online forums - once you're out there, you're really and truly out there. The key is to make sure that you know what's going out (and try to keep some in). I'm with Lynn, although I'm not sure I have her guts. And I'm with the MCs - if you hardly ever talk, it may be prudent to catch up a little. Connect before you extend your advice.
ReplyDeleteI like the bit about extending grace - soooooooo important in the scheme of things. I'm thinking whoever mentioned your lengthy legs did so with grace, Cat? I've been pointed in the correct direction more than once, but it was the approach and the motivation behind the pointing that I remember... and that's what really affected my own heart (and dopey mind).
Without seeing the picture involved[1] it's difficult to say what's going on, because we all have different perceptions, experiences and boundaries. But taking the OP's word for it that things went too far, one thing that might help would be if the Unveiled One could speak with an honest guy she trusts about how men tend to react to such things.[2]
ReplyDeleteThat said, I think y'all covered (sic) the basics, so I'd like to focus on the big picture.[3] I can see both sides (uh oh) of this one.
As a guy, I know all too well how seeing a woman's body can affect a guy. OTOH, *it doesn't have to*. One thing I would like to see in the Church is men set free from the belief that men can't help but lust.[3.5] We focus so much on the dangers that we convince ourselves men can't help it.[3.75] In reality, if we are new creatures in Christ, remade in God's image as he originally intended, and the old man is dead, then while we might be tempted, we needn't be slaves to sin. In Albania, I caught a glimpse of a woman changing into her bikini about 50 yards away in public. I looked again, but only because I couldn't believe what I thought I had seen. It only took a glance to confirm, and I looked away and ignored her.[4]
All that said, of course, there are plenty of unregenerate men around, nevermind the Christians who still struggle.
OTOH, I don't want to have to cover myself from neck to ankle when it's hot, or even when it's warm (or even when it's cold). If I could get away with it, I don't know that I'd run around naked, but I'd be perfectly happy running around in just a small bathing suit[5] for the summer. And half the rest of the year. So I can understand why a woman would feel that way as well. It's a tough balance.
I also understand the desire to be admired. The questions of course are always, "Why?", and "At what point do we push others from admiration into wrong desire?" Those are the twin horns of the dilemma. If you only look at the second one, and don't have good[6] insight into the first, you can't really address the problem. You might even make it worse. That's not to say don't try, but you need to be asking "why?" first. Ask God to show you how he sees the person in question. That makes it easier to:
- love them, thus not judge them
- know how to pray
- address any underlying issue
- find the right way to say things
[1] You'll notice I'm not asking to.
[2] Such recently helped one of my daughters.
[3] No, I don't want a poster of Bikini Babe!
[3.5] And women set free from that belief as well.
[3.75] As I learned riding motorcycles, wherever you focus is where you tend to go.
[4] Many Europeans are far more casual about their bodies and such things than Americans generally are, and as a result aren't as hung up.
[5] No Speedos in public, fear not!
[6] As in God's...
I find I've taken the attitude that it's their life, unless it's someone I'm close to. But...I've been known to "unfriend" casual acquaintances that I got tired of their "stuff" in general. I battled the whole, am I a bad witness by unfriending? Then I firmly declared, "It's my Facebook, I'll do what I pretty much please." Hence the freckle line display...perhaps the same statement rolled through her mind, too.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothers me more are some Christian parents on my FB that proudly display pictures they have taken of their young (and I mean young) curvy, (and I mean beautiful) daughters in bikinis lounging or frolicking around pools and declare things like "My adorable daughter". Perhaps they are living vicariously through the non stretched marked, cellulite bodies of their offspring.
yes, I feel like a prude. Yes, I had/have very strict standards, but no... I would never say anything to any individuals unless it's a very close friend.
My advice... if you're a male... practice your own self control and don't look any longer than it takes to scroll by. If you're a female... don't be jealous. :)
Side note... for a prude, I think I'm pretty open minded and reasonable. Something that's taken a lot of time to cultivate.
It's your facebook. Controlling what is on YOUR wall is YOUR choice. Even if it's unfriending offensive or tempting "friends".
Cat... I like to talk to. How about you and me do some talking say...August 12ish?
Roadkill--AMEN!
ReplyDeleteLoved every word of it.
If I were this girlfriend, I would be mightily PO if we had not talked for a while and suddenly you contacted me to let me know that my choices of profile shots were not up to your personal standards. It would tell me that you care more about judging me than you do about loving me.
ReplyDeleteIf, however, we were great friends and we talked about everything all the time and I knew you loved me, and then you threw in a question about the pic, I'd know exactly where you were going with it and nod my head before you'd even finished, saying, "Yea, I had second thoughts about posting that. So glad you asked me."
The bottom line would be to ask you how much does this friend know you love and adore her FIRST. It's an easy thing to judge; it's a much harder thing to do to love and respect others' choices. Which begs me to write the cliche: People only value your opinion when they know how much you value them.
Yes, very "titillating" post. Though I have unfriended a few Christian adults posing in bikinis with martinis in their hand, I only confront those I have a good relationship with or speak if the Holy Spirit leads me to. I also pray that I won't be judgmental or hasty and pray for them too. I am always open to speak if the subject comes up in conversation or in forums. Another approach I have taken is to post articles in my feed about virtue and purity and modesty, written by people who know how to lay it out in a loving but straightforward way.
ReplyDeleteAs a mom of a teenage son, we have discussions about the people on his friends list. He has been known to block a few of them from his news feed and unfriended 2 that were over the top wild in word, in picture or in deed. It's not just cleavage and midriff and denim underwear (sorry, that's what we call booty shorts around here), it's about the pose (like you mentioned), as well as horrible music lyrics and God's name in vain and movie choices. If I'm not actively involved in what my son is looking at and who is keeping "friends" with, then I believe I've missed opportunities.
I don't even hesitate to to talk to my kids' friends or kids I've led in church about any of those choices...I love them, and they know it. Often times they've just never thought about it before.
GREAT post that could leave me talkin for the rest of the day!